HomeMy WebLinkAbout08-28-1970 City Council Minutes JOINT STUDY SESSION
SARATOGA CITY COUNCIL & PARKS & RECREATION COMMISSION
TIME: TUESDAY, JULY 28, 1970 - 7:30
PLACE: CITY OF SARATOGA COUNCIL CHAMBERS, 13777 FRUITVALE AVENUE, SARATOGA, CALIFORNIA
I. ROLL CALL - Mayor ~bbins called the meeting to order at 7:40 P.M.
Present: Councilmen Bridges, Dwyer, Robbins, Sanders and Smith
Commissioners Aberle, Buckley, Cameron, Bonney, Duffy, Jones,
Matteoni, Wilberding, and Woodward.
II. REMARKS BY MAYOR ROBBINS
Mayor Robbins stated that the purpose of a study session is to have an informal
discussion between groups such as the Parks and Recreation Commission and the
City Council. By nature and'definition, we will not pass resolutions or make
decisions at this meeting, but will discuss general areas in order to better
proceed. Mayor Robbins felt it was appropriate to have a study session for
several reasons, one being that we have three new Parks and Recreation
Commissioners. The Agenda for this meeting was put together as a result of
suggestions from the Parks Commission and the City Council.
III. RELATIONSHIP OF COUNCIL AND COMMISSION
Mayor Robbins stated that the Parkst!and Recreation Corfanission was formed about
two years ago because the Council at that time 'felt that ~hey needed advice
from people who could spend more time on parks and recreation problems than
the Council could. It was set up as a body concerned primarily ~ith parks
and recreation who come up with ideas of their own and forward suggestions
at the request of the City Council.
Councilman Smith stated that from his own thoughts without getting into
specifics it would seem that we are. commit~d to keeping within the present
tax structure as far as park acquisition, expansion and development is con-
cerned unless we go back to the peop~e. This will mean that the p~rk program
will not be as extensive as shown.
Mayor Robbins stated that we have established in the budget a total amount to
be spent on parks, however, the City Council would like to have the Parks
Commission establish some prioritiep - this could be a recommendation over a
period of time rather than for the current fiscal year only.
In response to a question from Councilman Sanders as to whether the Parks
Commission had recommended a total amount to be spent on various park sites,
Mrs. Duffy stated they they did review what was in the budget and what the
basic footwork would be. For example, at Quito School, if there is $10,000
budgeted, the next step would appear to be discussion with the School District,
people in the area, etc. Mrs. Duffy stated that there was some confusion over
Mr. Beck's letter, especially as it.applied to fees.
Mayor Robbins stated he would like [he Parks Commission to work up some develop-
ment plans for parks within the budget and also priorities with regard to acquiring
land - he asked for guidanCe.as to ~hat priorities are important.
Councilman Sanders did not think welcould go out for bond again and wanted to
discuss priorities of acquisition first. He felt it was necessary to make a
decision concerning some potential sites before deciding on development.
IE~ REVIEW OF 1970=71 ~UDG~.AND ~__~LICATIONS ON PARKS AND RECREATION
Mayor Robbins pointed out that as fir as the budget is concerned the City.
generally adheres to the'totals and not necessarily toindividual items.
He stressed that the City Council would welcome advice from the Parks Commission.
Mr. Matteoni stated that the Parks Commission had recommended Brookglen-Cox
because it was in the greatest danger of being developed Soon. The Commission
felt the L]epava site would be available for some time.
~oint Study Session - City Council and Parks Co~nission - July 28, 1970
The Planning Director stated that the latest word from Brown and Kauff~n is that
they want to hold at their price of $30,000 per acre and they also feel that there
time to act as far as developing the piece or not is getting crucial. They are
hoping for some decision from this meeting or Council action as soon as possible.
The only relaxing of anything was the suggestion that th.ey might work out better
terms on the purchase of the p~operty. The final word is that they will stick with
$30,000 per acre and our offer has been $24,000 per acre.
Mayor Robbins pointed out that a decision'would have to be made soon as to whether
this is the price we can expect to pay or~whether we ehould ~o~sid'er some alternative.
Mr. Beck's report recommended a smaller piece of property on Saratoga Avenue which
even he felt was not as good as far as si~e and location are concerned.
Mrs. Duffy replied that Mr. Beck's original choice was even [l~r~than the six acres
under discussi.on now.
Mr, Sanders sugges~k~.~that we make a rec6mmendation that one of the committees tal~
to ~Brown and Kauffman~.
Mayor Robbins recommended that the Management Committee take this over and work with
Mr. Walker, the Acting City Manager and Mr. Huff when he returns.
Mr. Matteoni questioned the relationship of the Parks and Recreation Commission with
Mr. Beck - how much can we call upon him to[ eo___nt~inu~e_ to advi~e us? He noted that at
the last meeting the Parks Commission had ~attempted to pu~'~eiling on the fee.
Mr. Matteoni also stated that the Parks Commission has begun steps to have Prides
Crossing and neighboring homeowners advise them as to what they would like on the
Scully site. He stated that all these things have to mesh and~w~deredTffw~hould
have some overall direction from Mr. Beck. He~stated that on the whole the Parks
Commission was unsure of what they could recommend to the City Council because they
were not sure what~fa~tly is involved orTwhat Mr. Beck's fee would be. He felt
that this was definifely tied to the development of any park site and was a recurring
problem in making recommendations to the qity Council.
Mayor Robbins replied that we have two different services from Mr. Beck- one is
specific consultation which has to be wor~ed into the budget; however, if you get
to the point of drawing up a set of plans~such as for Wildwood Park or Scully
Triangle, then it would be necessary to o~tain a quote from Mr. Beck, and possibly
other people and forward this information ~to the Council. The Council should
authorize hiring Mr. Beck or whoever they want to do the job, but expect guidance
from the Parks Commission. Occasional consultations can be taken care of by the
City Manager.
Mr. Smith pointed out thedistinction between Wildwood park, as a special case, and
wanting to have a park developed as quickly as possible. He felt that Wildwood was
unique because of its history and because:it will not be similarly developed as the
others - it is an open space or~_f~p~cI_a~r~ir~e! ~h~n a planned recreation develop-
ment. He wondered whether the Commission were going to come up with a recommendation
or whether they were waiting for the feeling of the Council.
Mr. Matteoni replied that right now the C~mmission was looking at Scully Triangle.
Jim Naugle has indicated he will try to.put together a study group in the area to
ascertain what they need for that area. Once we have an,inventory we would like to
call in Mr. Beck for priorities in making recormnendations and working out plans for
that park. This would have to be a Master Plan because we can't complete all the
development at one time. We would probably have to begin with clearing, make sure
there is some mounding, etc. so that there is no waste of money by spreading develop-
ment out over the years.
Councilman Smith suggested a Master Plan which could be broken down by increments.
Mr. Matteoni stated that the Commission is not interested in a Master Plan for all
parks at this time because they do not feel this is an economical use of the money
which is available.
The Planning Director stated that the cost for drawing up a specific master plan would
be $2,000; to.complete working drawings and .supervise installation of facilities would
be another 10% of the project cost which Mr. Beck estimates from what the City has
shown on its preliminary plan. This would be approximately $2,000 to $2,500.
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Uoint~St~dy Session - City Council and Parks Commission o July 28, 1970
In response to a question from Mrs. Duffy, Mr. Walker described a Master Plan
as more or less what they staff did but with Mr. Beck's expertise and recommendations
on a more professional level. As far as what type of planrings, etc. would be used
these would be included in the ~6~king drawings. The Master Plan would show what you
have on the site, where it would be and th~ approximate size.
Mr. Smith wondered whether it would be possible to follow this procedure and have
the staff implement this - he wondered whether this. would involve the Planning and
Public Works Departments and how time-consuming it would be.
Mayor Robbins wondered whether we should consider obtaining bids from other people.
Mr. Dwyer pointed out that if we did have an overall plan, there are other competent
landscape architects in Saratoga who might be able to implement this plan.
Mr. Bridges pointed out that a great deal of care was taken in choosing Mr. Beck.
The Cormnission was impressed with him because he had the best feeling of our City
of anyone they talked to. He did not think it would be wise to become in~Dlved in
a lack of continuity and a piece-meal situation.
It was the consensus of the City Council and the Parks Cormnission that we need to know
just what the $2,000 entails. This is a matter of clarificatioh as far as Wildwodd
is concerned. It was suggested that a meeting be held with Mr. Beck and the
appropriate committee from the Parks CommiSsion.
With regard to Wildwood development,_~ayor T~ stated that one of the recommendations
of the Parks Commission was to consult wi~h Eb~ Village Merchants on this. He proposed
that the meeting be widened to include a view from other citizens in Saratoga and
~hat they would like to see for Wildwood Park.
It was the consensus of the Council and the Commission that the Commission should
go ahead and invite all interested parties to~.pa~ticipate in study sessions, and
should work with the Chamber of Commerce, the!~rchants and the city staff. It
will be important to ensure that the meeting is open to ~eryone. Residents who
are especially interested should be informed by mail.
It was the feeling of the Council and the Commission that it was imperative to get
the plans for development of Wildwood Park underway as soon as possible,
KEVIN MORAN PARK
Mayor Robbins stated that the Council had read the minutes of the Parks Commission
and understood that the problem they are facing is where the Po~y League field
should be located or can it be placed on the Cox parcel.
Mr. Bonney stated that at the last meeting this had been discussed in some detail.
It was the feeling of the Pony League that the Cox site would be preferable because
Scully Triangle is outside of their territorial limits,'.and people who live in the
immediate area would not be in their league. The League also felt that the Cox
site, particularly if the 81' was acquired, would be adequate for a multi-purpose
field which could be utilized by the'~olt]~League, the Pony League and other ball
teams. They discussed the best way to proceed and the conclusion was that the
Pony League should look into the question of what it wo~ld cost to construct a
field there and to develop at least some ~ough plans of what a field would look
like and also make a statement as to what part of the cos[ the Pony League would
contributeand submit these items to the Parks and Recreation Commission at its next
meeting. Subsequent to that time Mr. Bonney had discussed the matter with the Pony
League Officers and Directors and they codcluded that there would be a lot of work
and some expense to the Pony League which they were willing to do. They were
concernedlwhether the pon~' League, as it is now constituted, has sufficient
interest to just{fy the development of a park and whether their use would justify
the expense the City would have to go through. They felt it was necessary to discuss
this with the Council and decide where they should go from here. Mr. Bonney stated
that he had invited two members of the Pony League to the meeting if the members
had any further questions. ~
Dong Bailey, a resident of Bohlman Road, Twho has lived in the area for twenty years
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Joint Study Session - City Council and Parks Commission - J~ly 28, 1970
stated that he has been involved with baseball in Saratoga for the past 12 years,
and is Past President of the Pony League. At the beginning of this year in Saratoga
the Pony League had six team of 15 boys each for a total of 90 boys. Total enrollment
for Grades 7 and 8 (the two grades primarily served) was approximately 440 which
means the League provided baseball on a modified diamond scale (2/3 of a regular
diamond) for about 20% of the boys. The League~lans to increase its membership
by one team or possibly, two. He noted that enrollment in. gFammar schools is going
to decrease during the next four years. They had been he&itant aFout starting two
new teams this year, however, final registration indicated' that~they should have
added another team. Mr. Bonney noted that i~ was impossible to use one baseball
field for more than ten games per week. The Pony League is dependent on volunteer
help and so they cannot have regular day time baseball. The number of boys involved
in ten games a week (8 teams) would total 120 boys at the most on one baseball field.
The diamond could be used for practice sessions during the d~y by teams which
did not have three games during the week. In addition, the League has revised its
philosophy and intend to start a clinic oD August 15 for teaching purposes. This
Clinic will be held on Saturdays until school starts and as long thereafter as
possible. Mr. Bonney stated that at present the League~de~ds on fh~i~h'S~h'~l
district letting them use the field on Tuesdays, ThursdayS, S~tdfdays and Sundays.
The League believes, after examining all the maps and looking at the property
available, that the Cox Lane property, with the acquisition of the other property
between the City owned parcel and the railroad tracks, would be suitable for a
regulation size baseball field. He stated that the ~ite would require more dirt
to be moved and would probably cost six or seven thousand dollars more to develop
as a park site than the one which the City of San Jose developed. He stated that
the average cost of a baseball field was estimated at $~,000. ~he City of San
Jose provides some of the materials that go into every baseball field. Mr.iRolStonllJohnson
stated that the League was anxious to pin down the cost. They agreed with Mr.
Beck that a Pony League field was a specialized thing. It takes approximately
4 acres of land for a field 400' x 400' (16,000~sq. ft). The Colt League uses
a regulation size basebll field. The Colt League could'be included by stretching
out the season to 20 games. Another advantage to this particular parcel i~ that
it is not adjacent to a residential area. Scully has also been mentioned but.'it
is the wrong shape. The Pony League would like to have a snack bar and they are
willing to construct this. They are also willing to construct the restrooms
and the dugouts and could provide great savings in the purchase of a lot of the
materials. The League would be willing to provide comparative costs of developing
a baseball field at this site if the City were to let out bids on the competitive
market. Mr. Johnson did not personally feel that development of Wildwood Park should
be of first priority for the community because ~hey don't really have any park
facilities in town. He felt that the taxpayers do have money invested but do not
have facilities available. He felt the city should have facilities near the populated
areas of town, and that the recreational facilities should be investigated. He
stressed the idea of putting the first usable facility near the population center
where it will get o~timum use. He noted that the Eox site would be accessible
to a large number of kids in Saratoga without the necessity for crossing major
streets. Mr. Johnson stated that theCity of San Jose has its own design department
for parks and their own architects. They believe in joint use of parks between the
School District and the City. He also felt they would be a valuable source of
information if any of t|~ Council or Commitsolon members wished to go in and talk to
them.
Mayor Robbins suggested that the Pony League not go to a great deal of expense in
this connection but stated the City would like them to come up with some cost
estimates. The Parks Commission will take this information and decide where,
when and if at all. In response to Mr. Johnson's question about Federal Government
funds, Mayor Robbins stated that the City had been unsuccessful in obtaining open
space grants.
~r. Johnson stated that the Pony League was anxious to know.wh~her the Council and
Commission were basically ~n favor of the baseball park concept, and the Mayor replied
that $28,000 was a considerable amount of money at this stage. He noted that the
City had contributed to the baseball field at Redwood School in conjunction with the
School District and the Little League at a cost to the city of approximately $5,000.
Mayor Robbins felt that this was a more realistic figure.
Mr. Johnson stated that the League were proposing as their share to build the dugouts,
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Joint Study Session - City Council and Parks Cor~nission - July 28, 1970
snack facilities and restroom facilities. They were confident that they could
get contributions but were anxious to know whether the Council felt this was a
logical facility for this area. Mr. Johnson stated that one of the problems
facing the League at this time is that the High School is anxious to grass the
in-field.
Mr. Bailey, in response to a question from the Council, stated that the Pony League
was a non-profit organization with boundary lines running in proximity to the School
District. They do not receive financial support from the School District.
Mr. Smith stated that he would like to see this League extended to all Saratoga if
the City did invest this amount of money in a field. He wondered whether the snack
shacks were a necessary source of income and Mr. Bailey replied that they generate
a considerable about of income - approximately 12 to 15!hnnd~ed t dollars per year.
Mr. Wilberding felt that Mr. Beck should be guiding us in the planning of the snack
shack, restrooms, etc. He thought Mr. Beck's plans would be more elaborate, functional
and probably more~xpensive.
Mayor Robbins suggested that the matter be referred to the Parks and Recreation
Commission as to whether they consider this a high priority at this time. Mr.
Bridges suggested consultation with Gene Goldberg of the Recreation District as
to alternate uses during the day.
In closing, Mr. Johnson stated that if the City could buy the extra parcel at the
Cox Lane site, there would be an area, in addition to the field, for use as a general
park area. He added that he thought the number of kids involved is limited to the
number of fields which are available. At the present time there is only one field,
Mr. Matteoni stated that gill Cameron had discussed the idea of 'the Kevin Moran
Memorial Park with Mr. & Mrs. Moran and the family indicated that because of the!~
historical ties with Wildwood, they would prefer another site. Also, they did
not want this tied in with the bond election. The Parks Commission had focussed
in on the Cox Avenue site when the Pony League came up with this proposal.
!M~. Matte0ni felt it was important not to delay this any longer and Mayor Robbins
favored naming the park_that was to be developed first, which would appear to be
the Scully Triangle. Mr. '~ith agreed and wanted to see a site in the high use area
in the North end. Mr. Sanders suggested the Library site which is already committed.
It was the consensus of the Council and the Commission that Wildwood~shoul~.~_eceive
first priority~ especially in ~iew ofFhe,recent cri'ti~'is~,wh~'asbeen.~redeiV~d.
It' ~as also fel~' Wlld~oc~ Park would receive a considerable amoun~ of'u~e7
The only value in waiting might be if there was a possibility of buying Brookglen
Park.
Mayor Robbins thought we could proceed with the naming of one of these parks that we
either own or acquire, such as Brookglen, and at the same time proceed with developmentl
plans. The fact that we start something would seem to be sufficient indication that
we intend to make something of Kevin Moran Park. It would seem to break down to a
choice between~c~_~IIY~and the Library site. If it is the library site, it is not
likely to be developed in the near future because it will be necessary to depend on
another agency. The library probably won't be completed for three to five years.
The Planning~Director stated that Beck's preliminary ~cheme shows two baseball fields.
Mr. Matteoni stated that Mr. Beck felt it was possible to fit a Pony League field
on the Scully site. He is going to meet with a representative group from the
homeowners associations,,and possibly could explore the idea of whether they would
like a baseball field. There are a number of young boys in the area and perhaps the
Pony League could expand its program, This, together with the money the city could
make availabl~, would give a healthy development to that 8 acres and really show
something to naming the Kevin Moran Park. Nitha little study we could perhaps come
to some resolution by September or October.
Mayor Robbins suggested a recommendation from the Parks Commission at their next
regular meeting.
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~ .' Y~int Study Session - City~ouncil and Parks Commission - 28, 1970
Mr. Matteoni stated that the homeowners group has not yet been formed but we have
made the contact and Jim Naugle was to put] together a social function where he
would invite representatives from several ~djacent homeo~ners groups and try and
form a study committee that could meet wit~ the Parks and Recreation Cormnission.
They did not envision these meetings taking place until September so there would not
be any definite feedback from people in the area until that time as to types of
things they would like on that site. There is a girls softball team at Hanson School.
The Pony League are in need of facilities and if they could expand it would be
receptive to the residents. There might be some people bordering the site ~h~' ~
not like increased use and might request off street parking. Mr. Matteoni statedI
they would follow this up. He felt the Pa~ks Commission should take it upon themselves
to send a letter to each homeowners group fortifying this idea. Ue.>suggested a schedule
of meetings in order to hear from these people and felt we should initiate an invitation
for the homeowners to take part in the hearings.
I'~'was decided that the Parks Commission would set a Public Hearing at its next
regular meeting.
V. ROLE OF PARKS AND RECRKATION COMMISSION
Mayor Robbins suggested that the Parks Commission should not make recommendations
as far as tax rates are concerned. He stated the Council did want their feelings
as far as land acquisition and developrmnt.is concerned.
With regard to bills in the State LegislatUre which~will be of interest to the Parks
Commission, he felt it was appropriate for!the Commission to advise the Council on
their decision, however, all letters to the legislature should come from the Council
and be signed by the Mayor.
VI. BOND ISSUES
Mr. Dwyer stated that as far as the bond market is' concerned~'the newrUl~n'~'~h regard,
to the 2/3 majority will not affect the market accepting bon~'~RE~f~"p~a'~e~'on ~
51% majority for a long time. Therefore, he did not feel it had any real significance
in our current planning. He felt any decisions should be based on the changed mood
of the electorate, and that there were many complex legal questions involved.
In response to a question from Mr. Sanders~as to the feeling of the Parks Cormnission
on the parcel adjacent to Foothill School,'Mrs. Duffy stated that with all the ether
priorities, this does not seem to be a very bigh priority right now. She personally
would nmch rather see the Azule Triangle developed because it is in a much more
densely populated area and people in the area ~oted for the bond issue whereas
generally people in the Foothill area did not.
with regard to Gardiner 18Park, Mrs. Duffy~stated that at the coffees there were
several enthusiastic women who.pointed out'that perhaps it would be possible to
buy a portion of property now privately owned and make the park more visible from
the street. There was also a good vote in ithat area.
There was a brief discussion regarding the~Pathways Plan and thePlanning Director
stated that the General Plan review did consider one pathway and their recommendation
had been to leave the pathways as recommen~ed!'fn the 1969 General Plan.
Mayor Robbins felt that Mr. Beck's study, ~r something similar, would be adopted as
part of the General Plan. He noted that in Beck's Central Area Study he outlined
circulation~of pat~s. There is a proposed~path to hook up Sobey Road and Foothill
but this will require considerable discussion. Mr. Beck suggested a meandering
path in the area and moving the path north'because of the terrain.
Mr. Smith stated that the Council had asked the Planning Commission to take into
account that ample room be left for a pathway if the area continues to be developed
on the planned conmmnity concept. They can insist as one of the conditions tbat this
be done.
Mrf~.~ffy~t~d~th~t~th~re_w~s~st~a=~e~cft~-th,e~D~d~Te.ctf~n-and~a~sk~£~ any
~am~so~.persons who might be'willing to contribute. "Th~re'b~ing no further b~si~ess to
~ discuss[he meeting adjourned at 9:50 P.M.
' Respect ul y~s~
"X/C~ty Manager.